PALACE on fifth album ‘Ox’, ‘written around this idea of new life’
TOPNOTE chats to Rupert & Leo of Palace at St. John’s Church. Image credit: Sophie Wilks
“The journey is this sort of existential fear, fear of the future and the unknown. By the end, there is this feeling of acceptance and being present… being happy with where you’re at.”
Rupert Turner and Leo Wyndham, or ⅔ of Palace, joined us in a dimly lit ‘green room’, or a private space in St. John’s Church in Kingston, to chat about fifth studio album, ‘Ox’, ahead of their acoustic, intimate show at the venue, closing a run of in-stores to promote its release.
After forming in 2014, the trio have since amassed a huge global audience boasting multi-million streaming numbers, and soon head off on a nationwide tour of the US, with UK and EU dates for 2027 announced today. The first full-length studio record released on the band’s label, Palace Presents, and a shift away from their darker sonic past, TOPNOTE spoke about the new-chapter nature of ‘Ox’.
Read the conversation below.
This interview has been edited for clarity.
TOPNOTE: You talked about wanting your music to feel ‘optimistic and vibrant’ after the release of your EP ‘Greyhound’ last year. Did you go into the recording process for ‘Ox’ with the same mindset, or was it a natural extension?
Leo: It was actually very much a conscious decision. ‘Ultrasound’ was quite emotionally weighty and the subject matter was quite a heavy experience for everyone, and I think the music reflected that. It was very layered and had synths and electronics. Towards the end of recording, me and Ru were talking on the drive back to wherever we were staying about what the next record should be like, and we both agreed that it should be something uplifting, positive and just tonally quite different. Because you don't want to keep churning out things that feel emotionally heavy. We want to keep changing and evolving.
I suppose partly one of the things that coincided was having a child. For me, becoming a father, there was this feeling of positivity, and this thing approaching and coming into existence. It was very much written around this idea of new life. And I think that's what it felt like, sonically and thematically, it did feel like this new chapter.
TOPNOTE: I noticed parallels in the sound and lyrics between your title track, and ‘Heaven Up There’. Was ‘Ox’ written as a response to that song?
Leo: Maybe we have touched on that idea, there is a feeling that links those two songs, there's something quite epic about both of them. I like that idea, it wasn't intentional necessarily but, there is a sort of anchored feeling and a groundedness in the resolve of the song and lyrics. And I think it does end and land in that sort of hopeful place of feet firmly on the ground, and this hopeful, positive feeling for the future.
Rupert: Yeah, they're both the last track. They both have that journey feeling.
Leo: I think there's a sense of acceptance throughout the album and very much on that track. The journey is this sort of existential fear, fear of the future and the unknown. By the end, there is this feeling of acceptance and being present and not necessarily being able to change things. But being happy with where you're at. There's a real sense of gratitude.
“It’s funny because sometimes the most intense songs to put together are the ones that turn out the most interesting. Like I think people really love ‘Dream On’. That was also really difficult and very tense. Lots of re-recording parts, and panicking and overthinking, and it’s actually become a popular track for us.”
TOPNOTE: I would imagine this new album is going to entirely reshape the sound of your live shows, have you thought much about that yet?
Rupert: I think so, I would imagine. Cause this album's more uplifting, it makes the sets easier to organise. I feel like it offsets a lot of the heavier, slower stuff. It can let other songs be the songs they were meant to be… when we used to sometimes force them to maybe be more upbeat than they naturally were.
Leo: I think it has for some reason been easier than ever planning out the set. And they feel like proper songs, it sounds like a weird thing to say, but these songs feel like they're real songs.
We always talk about this idea of certain songs being ‘vibes’ songs, rather than structured and arranged. There's nothing wrong with ‘vibe’ songs, but we have a lot of those, and these feel more like, in the classic sense, just actual songs. It’s easy to put them in the set and tell a bit of a story with it I think.
TOPNOTE: ‘Kicking Up Shadows’ is my favourite on the new record, could you talk a bit about that?
Leo: It was a sort of character one really about these two people on the run, these young lovers. I imagined this sort of desert plain and it being quite Bonnie and Clyde style. But yeah, the first time writing something that felt more about other people than a personal experience. It's fun to toy with that because we haven't really done that in other songs.
The sound almost has this Western, desert-y feel to it, and this momentum and drive, and dusty feeling. It was really hard to record. We had a bit of a nightmare, there were lots of people getting really frustrated and not being able to figure it out til the last minute.
Rupert: I redid all my parts at home. I didn't like any of my parts. So then it was a shock to everyone because my guitar parts were completely different (laughing).
TOPNOTE: Have there been any songs where you’ve had a proper argument?
Leo: Yeah. I wouldn’t say an argument, we’re not the kind of band where it’s like shouting, I think there's a lot of sulking, there's tension… there's a lot of tension sometimes, but I say it with a pinch of salt. Generally it's pretty fluid. But yeah, people get a bit annoyed and I think tiredness, just going in every day, you're doing this for months. We all live outside of London so you just want to get back to your family sometimes.
Rupert: Also I think everyone hears everything differently… because it’s just so subjective. Sometimes it can be impossible to describe what you're hearing and people just don't get it in understanding what you're saying. Sometimes things don't happen as you imagine. You just have to go with it. There's so many cooks in a recording studio.
Leo: But then also, it's funny because sometimes the most intense songs to put together are the ones that turn out the most interesting. Like I think people really love ‘Dream On’. That was also really difficult and very tense. Lots of re-recording parts, and panicking and overthinking, and it’s actually become a popular track for us.
“I think there’s always been a feeling that our sound somehow works in a church, there’s a certain atmosphere. Whether you’re religious or not, there is a feeling that translates and somehow works with our music. ”
TOPNOTE: I saw in a recent Q&A you said you’d written a song once with Paul McCartney — is that true?!
Leo: No! (laughing) I think the question was who would be your dream collab and I said Paul McCartney. We were in Liverpool at the time. We'd walked down the famous streets… the Beatles are just everywhere there. I’d collab with him, for sure, if he's out there, but we haven't done a song with him. We haven't really done a collaboration with anybody to be honest. It almost feels weird, the idea, I don't know how it would work. I don't know, who knows?
TOPNOTE: You’re about to play a church before you go off on a big venue tour of the US. How do these types of shows compare?
Leo: It’s been amazing playing these much more intimate shows, and play these songs in different ways. Our first ever big headline London show – big for us at the time – was in a church. I remember in the early days chasing a reverb, the sound that a church can give you. I remember calling people, we were looking into recording in a church just to get a natural reverb sound.
So I think there's always been a feeling that our sound somehow works in a church, there's a certain atmosphere. Whether you're religious or not, there is a feeling that translates and somehow works with our music. When you walk into the space and feel that energy in the room, there is something about it that just creates a good backdrop for music. That first gig we did at St. Pancras Church was a really special show for us, I think it was 100 people, but we sold it out.
Rupert: When you're in a church, it feels automatically more intimate. More spiritual in a way than in a venue.
Leo: There are some venues that can give you that kind of vibe, you can still have these spiritual moments and shows. Often it's the crowd and the connection and vibrations of the room, and you get a feeling that resembles that.
Rupert: Well the church is the original music venue, right? It’s bringing in your community, so there’s crossovers, it's very similar.
Leo: I don't think we're playing any churches in America, are we? We're playing a cave. A real cave, in Tennessee. In my head I keep imagining that's gonna have that same feeling and acoustics.
Find the photos and review from Palace’s acoustic show in St John’s Church here.